Billing or prepayment meter?

[ceylon]

they will never return anything

i deduct the last payment if they have not taken it off

[exdrogadgy]

Having received a further bill which i must now pay immediately or suffer further charges and possible disconnection/prepayment meter installation. I am tomorrow sending another cover letter/prom note etc. This time the prom note is more authentic and the bgc has the proper phrases exempt from levy, nat ins no, signed, accepted for value etc and dated.

I will let you know of any response

[exdrogadgy]

Today received an immediate reply with returned prom note and bgc slip. The Prom Note has two black lines across it and the words written "payment not accepted". This is the cover letter they sent, they are IN DENIAL:

Thank you for your letter dated may 5 which has been passed to my attention. Please find the promissory note enclosed.

I am writing to inform you that we reject your postion that you have made payment to clear your overdue gas account. The balance remains at £xxxxx and we will soon send a specialist debt adviser to visit your home to discuss the payment of this sum. You will incur an additional fee of £54 to cover the cost of the visit. To avoid this action you must contact us immediately to advise of your payment intentions.
We will not accept payment under "Accepted for value" because it is not a recognised payment method. We have received a number of similar claims and our solicitors have investigated the premise thoroughly. They have concluded that "Accepted for Value" holds no relevance to the Energy Industry and that the HMRC will not honour these "negotiable instruments".

Under Clause 3.2 of our terms and conditions, "You agree to pay us for supplying gas or electricity (or both) and for other charges which apply under this contract... Any person whose name is on the account is responsible for paying our bills and we may claim any money owed to us under the account from one or all account holders."

As with previously received examples of "Accepted for Value" claims it is our intention to continue with our standard debt recovery processes until repayment has been secured. The non payment of your account is being shared with credit reference agencies and will affect your ability to gain credit in the future. If payment is not received we will also apply to the courts for a warrant to enter your home under the Rights Of Entry (Gas and Electricity Boards) Act 1954 to remove your meter and install a Pay As You Go meter to recover what is owed. Please be aware that you will be liable for all associated costs.

Thank for bringing this matter to our attention.

Your Sincerely

Signature S B Squiggle
Shane Bonney customer relations Manager
managing director's Office

I have a few questions to ask them regarding this letter
1 will they return my previous prom note and bgc slip
2 they state it is my meter, my property
3 they cannot ignore the payment instruments, they cannot ignore the bills of exchange act
4 is his signature viable
5 they didn't enclose another bill

[iwanttolearn]

iv had the same from the water company saying they do not accept this type of payment...so it seems that a4v is not working?

[exdrogadgy]

iv had the same from the water company saying they do not accept this type of payment...so it seems that a4v is not working?

We never expected them to take this without a fight. We have the law behind us and it will work. You cannot expect them to admit it works. Keep trying with the water company. I am going to return the returned prom note & bgc slip back to them and ask them what they have done with my previous prom note & bgc slip, have they cashed them? If they have then the bill is already paid and my account should be zero.

[Buffy1973]

Hiya, I've just done a quick search and will look into your issues further later on. I have come across a useful site http://thejusticeofthepeace.blog.co.uk/ ... y-8231890/

It seems to me that if you can proove that you are in a genuine dispute with British Gas, the Magistrates will take this into account when BG apply for a warrant. Obviously, you need to find out which court they are intending to use and send in your objections to tue Clerk to the Courts. Ensure that you specifically state that you want your evidence on file so that the Magistrate reads it before making a decision on the warrant.

There are other strategies you can use, I will dig around for you. Just quickly though, is BG your gas supplier only or your electricity supplier as well?

[exdrogadgy]

Yes, they supply both. And thanks, that's brilliant.

[Buffy1973]

This is interesting stuff. Just a few more questions.

Have you written to them regarding the first prom note, the one they kept? Ask them why it was not returned etc....

Have you quoted the relevant case law to them (Lord Denning re prom notes)? Ask them to confirm that they own more than £2 million in fixed assets (in writing).

What is your desired outcome? Do you want them to accept that they have been paid with your original A4V? Do you just want them to not put in the prepay and arrange a payment plan? This is all important before we start working on them.

Are there any other factors that we can utilise? Have they been harassing you? Is the bill in proportion to what you have used?
Could you be classed as a vulnerable adult? Do you, or anyone in your family have a serious illness or disability? Are you on benefits? Who lives with you? Is your house owned, privately rented or Local Authority property?

What brand is your current meter? I know this sounds daft, however, if BG are overcharging you, you can take them to the small claims court for a refund AND you can also add as a co-defendant, the manufacturers of the meter (this has happened to Siemens).

I know these may seem like bizarre questions, but remember, in order to ensure they have no wiggle room we need to look at every possible angle that we can approach it from.

[Buffy1973]

Ok, I have found another angle that you can use to defend yourself against the pre payment smart meter. It might sound a little crazy, but hear me out.

Landis+Gyr are the company who supply British Gas with their pre payment meters. The current model is the Libra 200 Series. The software is supplied by a company called Trilliant.

I have done a bit of research and found out that these meters have several flaws, which could provide a convincing defence when objecting to their installation.

British Gas are able to manage these meters remotely, they can up your tariff anytime, without even contacting you, via SMS. They can disable/re-enable your supply, remotely. They can establish a two way data stream with your meter and take readings whenever they like (invasion of privacy springs to mind), and the best part is, they can influence your usage by increasing and decreasing the tariff throughout the day so that most people (especially the poor and vulnerable) will only use energy when it is at it's cheapest, say 2 am. I think this is shocking, it will mean that the vulnerable, and those on limited means, will begin to go without gas and/or electric in peak periods when they need it the most (mealtimes, cold spells etc...).

But let's not leave it there. From a technical point of view the meters are easily hacked into, anyone could fiddle with your data. There are several potential network configurations possible, however they are flawed. No solution is optimal for all applications. WiFi, Internet, fixed wireless and SMS signals, all depend on location. Some people living in rural and/or mountainous regions may experience issues with their meters.

Consumer groups have voiced concerns that there is no monitoring framework currently in place, basically the gas board could get away with anything pricing wise.

But again, there's more. The element of the meters which allows the SMPS (Switching Mode Power Supply) emits sharp spikes of millisecond bursts, constantly 24/7, these bursts are of 50,000 hz or higher. This constant pulsing interferes with electronic equipment, particularly expensive Audio/Visual products, and it interferes with biological systems (us, our pets etc....) within it's range.

You are probably thinking why is this relevant? Well, should BG apply to the courts for a warrant of entry, you can arm yourself with the proof that your perfectly legal method of payment has been rejected by BG and now your bill is in dispute. You may be able to apply for an injunction on any BG agent entering your property until such time as the dispute is settled.

If things aren't looking great you can then bring the info about the meters into the matter. Outline your concerns, after all, how many people are going to agree to having a potentially dangerous item installed into their homes?

These meters are unbelievable. It has just been discovered that they produce dirty electricity, which contains several Carcinogens. What Magistrate is going to force you to expose your family to a potentially lethal piece of equipment?

How much would you sue the arse off BG if this meter f***** up your brand new iMac?

I have only just scratched the surface. There are so many issues with these meters and their software, this needs looking into much, much more BEFORE folks have these meters forced upon them.

I'm not crazy, as I have said before, use every angle, allow no wiggle room!

I will post this info in the Utilities Forum so others can read it as well. If I can help at all with letters, court docs etc..., let me know.

[exdrogadgy]

Thanks again Buffy, brilliant work, it is so kind of you. Much appreciated.

Haven't check the meter make yet, will do later.

I am single and live in a local authority tenancy.

I am quoting Lord Denning.

I had given them accurate meter readings and they quoted £156 over the phone and when the bill arrived it was £160. I have had problems with recent bills which were higher than they should be but on one occasion i knocked them down.

I will ask them why they haven't returned my original prom note.

The outcome i want is for the account to be zero and then pay the next bill with another prom note.

I will Ask them to confirm that they own more than £2 million in fixed assets (in writing).

I am not disabled or anything.

I will answer any other questions later.