Fixed Penalty Notice - no seatbelt

[amiduk]

Hello everyone,
My first post here if you dont include my intro , anyway i was travelling through nottingham earlier today and saw a bmw police car pass me and turn around very fast i thought maybe a accident or something, then they pulled in behind me and gave me a flash i courteously pulled over thinking they must want to get past and they pull in behind me, a copper came over asked the usual "do you know why i stopped you" i said no and he said i had no seatbelt on, i said oh.
We got into his car he asked me if id like to join him, so i decided to but before i got in the car i showed him the lioness card that says you have no legal authority over the bearer, anyway what was said next astounded me, he said "i wont be dealing with anything lawful today i wish i had had my recording device at this point i was quite shocked and couldnt really talk, which may have been a new tactic by the boys in blue lol
Got in the car said i did not consent and would not sign for anything, he said i didnt have to and it didnt matter wether i did or didnt consent, he asked my name i refused, he got very nasty and snapped "that if i didnt give him my name and address then he would arrest me, i said ok on and for the record i give these details under duress, he said " duress duress what do you mean" i said you will take my freedom from me by force if i refuse, he then said " by law i will arrest you lmao, we then argued the semantics for a while.
On leaving the car i metioned that he had fufilled part of his quota for the day by issuing me a fpn, he snapped again very defensively and said that they dont have a quota so i said yeah you do you have targets to hit and im one of them lol, he wasnt amused and again snapped that they dont have targets i definetley hit a raw nerve.
Anyway i came out of that situation with a fpn for 60 quid, anyone got any ideas of how i can deal with these cretins, next time i will just say no all the way, couldnt this time i bottled it lol.
Ps sorry for my bad grammar and crappy spelling, i will try and get better

[marko]

next time...you insist NOT to leave your car and enter theirs...for them to insist, you have already been arrested ! How long had you been travelling or indeed them followng...check RTA act for defenses in respect of the offence....some plod cars record all the time when stopping...you can ask, then ask to to see it, before you pay or plead guilty either way, if it can not be clearly seen you had no seat belt, he would have to argue he had better sight (and would'nt convince anyone)...was he/she alone? ergo not corroborated...if alone...your word against her/him...I'd run that one if plod was alone!! It,s not a requirement, but I,d stand my ground...

[amiduk]

The way i was parked was in quite a dangerous position for plod to be stood at the side of my car, i know what you are saying about non compliance with them and it was foolish of me but it was out of consideration for plod and other road users, i may disagree with the old bill and their policing methods but i still wish no human any harm, and the way he worded it was not an order or a request but more like an invitation plus ive seen what has happened to non compliant road users refusing to get out their car then being threatened that their windows would be put through too much for me atm i dont feel mentally strong enough.
He was not alone he had a wpc with him that said nothing just observed, they saw me for what would have been about 3-4 secs as they passed me but 2 of them versus me, so it probs just looks like ill have to pay the fine and learn from experience, anyone paid magistrates with promissary note with success?

[trixreborn]

I got about 3 or 4 notice of intended prosecution, I very nicely wrote no contract return to sender, and they just sent another and another, finally I wrote from bottom left to top right in RED marker, NO CONTRACT IN COMMON LAW ANY FURTHER CORROSPONE WILL BE CHARGED AT £1500.00 PER LETTER RECEIVED. They did send another but I think that was before they had received that one and did not respond again that was back in may. Send it back NO CONTRACT

[amiduk]

Cheers for the advice im sending back the fpn the copper gave me with labels on saying:
REFUSED FOR CAUSE WITHOUT DISHONOUR
NO CONTRACT IN COMMON LAW
NO CONSENT
ANY FURTHER CORRESPONDENCE WILL BE CHARGED AT £1500.00 PER LETTER RECEIVED
I thought the fee was quite high and was gonna change it but hopefully it will dissuade them from sending me any more crap
Even if this doesnt work i dont care anymore im gonna stand my ground, im still not wearing my seatbelt unless i deem it necessary, ive been travelling on britain landmass for 6 years now without an accident and im not gonna start fearing that one will happen now.
Peace

[trixreborn]

I would maybe add that it was presented under duress, if they continue to send them make them an offer that you will pay any lawful debt you owe them if they can provide a signed contract from both parties giving full disclosure, it means they can't go to court as you have offered a remedy and if they decide not to take that offer they would be in dishonour in court, as for the £1,500.00, it has to be something of substance not worth while risking in court which they could lose.

[ohm1969]

Read a good link which I failed to save sadly about roadside stops & the resulting paperwork..
What I remember is the policy officer will try to get you to sign the ticket/BILL OF EXCHANGE & fob you off with the copy.This is why they try to hang on to the pad whilst you sign your money away.By accepting the copy you are putting yourself in dishonour as you have not honoured the original BOE at the time of the alleged offence. Idea is to try to take the pad from the nice man,personally I would not autograph it,but add ALL RIGHTS RESERVED,NON ASSUMPIT and rip the ticket off real quick & get it into your pocket ASAP.Failing that try to get a tear in the original so you can prove in court (if you can be arsed to go that far) that the nice man would not give you the original (even tho you tried to remove it yourself from the book) which I believe he is required to do as per the Bill Of Exchange Act.Might also be interesting to engage him in a conversation about BOE's and see if he is actually competent to be dishing them out.
Also I remember from the article that if you offer to pay at the time (obviously be awkward & offer a cheque/credit card) and they cannot accept,the bill becomes void.
And...It is your right to have a browse at the PACE book,so if they do not happen to have one they must get one for you.Enjoy every word
A recording would obviously be helpful to prove that you,your rights and the paperwork were dealt with in a lawful fashion.
Please check all this yourself as is from memory,I will hunt for the link.

This may be interesting tho
https://www.lifeinthemix.info/2012/06/demolish-speeding-fines-issuance-penalty-points/

[marko]

Read a good link which I failed to save sadly about roadside stops & the resulting paperwork..
What I remember is the policy officer will try to get you to sign the ticket/BILL OF EXCHANGE & fob you off with the copy.This is why they try to hang on to the pad whilst you sign your money away.By accepting the copy you are putting yourself in dishonour as you have not honoured the original BOE at the time of the alleged offence. Idea is to try to take the pad from the nice man,personally I would not autograph it,but add ALL RIGHTS RESERVED,NON ASSUMPIT and rip the ticket off real quick & get it into your pocket ASAP.Failing that try to get a tear in the original so you can prove in court (if you can be arsed to go that far) that the nice man would not give you the original (even tho you tried to remove it yourself from the book) which I believe he is required to do as per the Bill Of Exchange Act.Might also be interesting to engage him in a conversation about BOE's and see if he is actually competent to be dishing them out.
Also I remember from the article that if you offer to pay at the time (obviously be awkward & offer a cheque/credit card) and they cannot accept,the bill becomes void.
And...It is your right to have a browse at the PACE book,so if they do not happen to have one they must get one for you.Enjoy every word
A recording would obviously be helpful to prove that you,your rights and the paperwork were dealt with in a lawful fashion.
Please check all this yourself as is from memory,I will hunt for the link.

This may be interesting tho
https://www.lifeinthemix.info/2012/06/demolish-speeding-fines-issuance-penalty-points/

Why on earth would plod have to allow you to view a Police and Criminal Evidence Act booklet (which is formulated for persons in custody) at a roadside ticketing offence? Place a tear in the orginal? I am 'so' trying to be less critical here, but jeez! bill of exchange? Also YOU DO get original (normally white - (as in HO/RT 1) and speeders and F.P's and the rest of the shit, plod keeps the copy...where would all this info go, if plod just reported you for summons verbally,which he can - without paperwork, he does not even have to issue a HO/RT 1 if he chooses not to do so, where is all this contract / bills of exchange then - no disrespect to anyone - but this is all nonsense..who is making this up and writing articles on these subjects?

[amiduk]

Thanks for all your advice i will check that link and let you all know what happens as as when .
peace

[gibx33]

Hi all

I think when it comes down to the basics its his word against yours he has to prove your wrong doing it is not your responsibly to prove your innocence its up to them to prove you where breaking a statute. I would now say arrest me but i will need legal representation when you get to the police station they are accusing you i would say put them to proof.