Some suggest that a signature contained within a box within a document separates that signature from the rest of the document.
What is the precise meaning of the four corner rule and or boxes within documents?
It is interesting to note signs, symbols and terminology – four corners?:
All Four corners of the world. For most the world is the earth; it isn’t!!
Etymology of world is:
O.E. woruld, worold “human existence, the affairs of life,” also “the human race, mankind,” a word peculiar to Gmc. languages (cf. O.S. werold, O.Fris. warld, Du. wereld, O.N. verold, O.H.G. weralt, Ger. Welt), with a literal sense of “age of man,” from P.Gmc. *wer “man” (O.E. wer, still in werewolf; see virile) + *ald “age” (see old). Originally “life on earth, this world (as opposed to the afterlife),” sense extended to “the known world”
So the four corners of the world could mean – human affairs contained within the four corner Rule:
So what is it?
This is an interesting post from pleasuredome 4th January 2009, 18:28 on the consumer action group: https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/154051-the-four-corner-rule/
The Four Corner Rule
The term is ordinarily included in the phrase within the four corners of the document, which denotes that in ascertaining the legal significance and consequences of the document, the parties and the court can only examine its language and all matters encompassed within it. Extraneous information concerning the document that does not appear in it–within its four corners–cannot be evaluated.
Four Corners legal definition
so anything that is not in the four corners of the document has no effect on it.
if a box is put onto the document, a new ‘four corners’ is created. it follows that anything inside that box has no effect on the language outside of it and vice versa.
most CC agreements i have seen contain a signature box. if you sign within the box, you agree to the terms within the box, not on the whole document. if there were no terms in the box where you signed and there is no signature of the bank rep in the box, then there cant be an agreement.
can anyone add to this?
So why put the bloody box there then?
I ‘ve also seen this for the for office use only section where their rep signs it, it does not refer to the agreement but more to their involvement in processing the agreement. (or possible commission for the process being completed with client signature) so their signature does not apply to the agreement.
It could also mean that if you are taken to court for any matters pertaining to the agreement, it doesn’t matter what the contents of the agreement are, once you’ve given a judge jurisdiction, they will do what they want regardless of the agreement. i.e. the signature will mean nothing since you have already given jurisdiction to being part of the agreement, whether or not it’s part of the doc or not using the four corner rule. you’ve made it pertain to you, regardless of the fact that ths signature is in a seperate box.
could it mean that they are protecting themselves from their own agreement?
knowing that it has errors or may have errors.
or knowing that it’s wrong yet by having the box using the four corner rule, they protect themselves, plus try and pass begin and collect…..
win, win , win
have they knowingly done this to protect themselves against any future repercussions of their so called agreement.
Do they have knowledge that it will someday be exposed and used this to protect themselves against this?
does this also mean that within the four corner rule, if there is nothing in it but a signature, they can make it up as they go along, (in reference to court cases).
Like signing a blank piece of paper, and letting them fill in the rest of the details as they please.
what happens when we sign a blank piece of paper?
I’ve seen reference to this before, could it be of significance to this?
Blacks Law / Moorish Law Dealing With the Courts PT.1
Blacks Law / Moorish Law Dealing With the Courts PT.2
great post, it has given us something to think about
regarding the four corners of the earth, it clearly can’t have four corners unless it was flat, but we know it isn’t, so they’d have a hard time making this fact.
That consumer action group is full of people providing disinformation, it’s really sad to see that pleasuredome was offering sound advice and the people on there were going against what was valuable information.
I’ve seen this on other sites also including tpuc, the site is great, but the forums look like slagging matches.
We’re lucky to have such a great forum and I hope it stays this way.
Yes this really is a very informative forum, due to the devoted and experienced individuals who post here for the benefit of others like me.
I would say that the information is massing very quickly and newcomers are going to find it increasingly time consuming trawling through all the posts.
Perhaps at some point in the near future the information could be honed for ease of access to frequently asked questions such as:
What is the difference between a lawful contract and an agreement?
What is the difference between a signature and an autograph?
What colour inks to use and why?
What is the Four Corner Rule?
What circumstances demonstrate a debt as sold, for example bank merger or bank sold, or DCA?
Thank you satw
I agree you have a very good point.