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RECOVERIES CORP debt collectors, threat of legal proceedings

peggyvz asked:

On March 30 2012 my 17yr old son had a minor car accident for which he was deemed responsible as he ran into the back of a turning vehicle. Not long after we began getting calls for my son, from people who would not identify themselves, nor their business and would not leave a message. this continued for some weeks. We assumed it was the insurance company.

On 13 April we received a letter from NRMA insurance stating they had information that our son was responsible for damage incurred to the other vehicle in the accident. They would provide details if requested. The letter finished with, ” Please telephone our office to discuss settlement of our clients loss.” We did not reply to this letter.

23 April: Letter from RECOVERIES CORPORATION PTY LTD saying they acted for NRMA insurance. Wishing to recover their “clients””loss”.

30 April
I emailed the person on the letter. this is before I became a member here and I didn’t have the exact copy for the 3 letters procedure. I simply asked for the documents for proof of contract as per Elizabeth Crofts ebook.
ie.
1. validation of the debt(actual accounting)
2. Verification of the claim against my son(sworn affidavit or signed invoice.)
3. a copy of the contract binding both parties

we did not hear from them for over 8 weeks.

On 29 June, we received a notice from Recoveries corp. from a different person.
Once again stating they acted as recovery agents for NRMA insurance. Damages had been assessed and my son was supposedly liable for costs of $2,685. “Confirmation of the costs” attached and payment should be made to RECOVERIES CORP to be paid within 7 days.
They had provided photocopies of itemised costs from the smash repairs, A copy of the NRMA insurance assessment report. A copy of a tax invoice from hire car company.
no sign of actual accounting, no signed invoices, no contract.

This is when I found your site, to get the exact wording, timing etc for the 3 letters. I began the process. I sent letter 1 registered mail, 8th July.
2nd letter 18July, 3rd letter 28 July all by registered mail to the second person who had sent us the letter re: costs my son was supposedly liable for.
During this time we received some phone calls from them. July 27, 21 Sept and 12 Oct. I logged 3 calls, but think there were maybe five in all, as I was told of other calls that had been made when I was not present.

30 Oct. receive notice of intention to recommend Legal Proceedings from RECOVERIES CORP. accompanied by an offer of a reduced lump sum of $2285. If client’s offer is rejected they would recommend legal proceedings.

I wrote an invoice, $3,000, for three calls, but did not send it, dated 6 Nov 2012 for the calls made to us after sending ESTOPPEL.

3 Dec. Receive a letter from MASON & BLACK Lawyers. Letter head written on the right hand side. underneath on right hand side RECOVERIES CORP details and at the bottom of the letter, Payment slip. The letter opens: We act for Recoveries Corporation on instructions from NMRA insurance. If payment not received within 7 days we will seek instructions to issue legal proceedings.

This actually felt threatening and I buckled. I wasn’t sure if it really was the lawyers now although the letter still instructed all communication to be directed to Recoveries Agency. I asked my son what he wanted to do. He decided he wanted to call the office and tell them he was not financial. At 18 now, he was just finished year 12 and on youth allowance payments intending to study etc no income spare. He called the Recoveries office who said they would send out a form for him to fill out to prove financial hardship.
This seemed a backward step, but still we just wanted them off our back.

6 Dec 2012. Receive a letter from RECOVERIES CORP. “You have informed us that you are not in a position to finalise the amount outstanding.”
Enclosed was an income and expenses form asking for Title, First Name, Middle Name, Date of Birth, Marital Status, details about home ownership, employment, government benefits, financial details, assets and liabilities & expenses. then, what arrangements are you prepared to offer to satisfy the amount claimed? finally a declaration of details provided being true and correct. signature and date.
We started filling it in, they even supplied a return paid envelope. I didn’t feel right to send it as it seemed admission of debt. Also probably a contract. So we didn’t send it.

29 Jan 2013. Receive a letter and forms identical to that received on 6 Dec. for financial details. We did not fill them in.

14 Feb 2013. Receive 2nd letter/payment demand and threat of legal proceedings identical to that received on 3rd Dec. from? MASON & BLACK Lawyers,and payslip for RECOVERIES CORP.

I should mention on the portion just before the payslip there is a box, inside it is written in bold:
All communication should be directed to Recoveries Corporation Pty Ltd – Please note that Recoveries Corporation Pty Ltd is not a law firm and is independent from Mason Black Lawyers Pty.

So, now we have 7 days according to this notice before they may ask for instructions re: legal proceedings.
Does anyone here have any comments or advice as best way to move forward now. We really do not want to go to court although I know they have not provided contract nor validation of debt or verification of claim I don’t feel confident to represent this issue in a courtroom. I was thinking we could just send payslip from centrelink to show my son is on youth allowance, but it still assumes RECOVERIES CORP do have a right to claim the amount when really they have probably just bought the account from NRMA

thanks in advance for any replies and suggestions Peggy van Zalm for son Sole 18 now, 17 yrs old when the accident occurred back in Mar 2012.

williams2583 replied:

I am not up on how things stand in oz, however if this was in the UK your son would run the risk of being uninsurable if no claim is settled.

There appear to be 2 issues, namely can your son afford the costs (dont understand why his insurance wont pay) and who has allocated the fault.

On the first issue you could confirm his income-nothing else so it is obvious he cant pay other than a monthly sum.

The solicitors are conveniently missing that because they wont get their costs and commissions.

I would rely on the basis 1) he does not have the money, and 2 no fault has been admitted (it is usual that most accidents are not 100% the fault of one driver).

Where there any witnesses, where the police called ?.

In the long run i would expect it to go to court where blame will be allocated and a repayment schedule agreed.

To avoid this i would confirm your son has no assets and income and without admitting guilt agree to pay a very nominal sum monthly or a vastly reduced settlement figure say $1000.

They dont want monthly payments as it will take years to repay.

Nb make sure your son is properly covered in future.

peggyvz replied:

Really Williams2583, I am surprised you seem to be endorsing the workings of the old system.

We do not buy insurance, don’t like to support that system, In the long term one does take the risk of living doing what one believes so as to not harm others and to pay when there is genuine loss. At time of accident my son admitted he was in the wrong, although, he said he did not see her indicating, not sure she did. Point being he paid his fine. Why should he pay for the other vehicle”s damages when the other party was insured and they paid the insurance company premiums so they would be covered for damages. The company then uses those premiums to provide what they have agreed to. Recoveries corp did not supply any of the requested documentation to prove they have a have contract with my son, they could not supply actual accounting for any “loss” only the costs of repair. They also did not show actual duty of assignment from NRMA –

Thinking to just supply payments slips from govt. allowance to show he is not financial, but do not want to sign anything in case it becomes binding as a contract.

NB.

According to OPPT, corporations have all been lawfully foreclosed as of 25 Dec 2012.

Please see attachment and also http://oppt-in.com/documents/

peggyvz replied:

anyone else with any ideas, or have I just got it plain wrong as far as RECOVERIES corp goes?

They did not provide any documents requested, just sent photocopies of the costs of repairs.

Are they 3rd party interlopers or genuinely acting on behalf of NRMA insurance

Is the threat of legal procedings just a threat…

Weazel85 replied:

How is it all going ? Any updates ? Don’t pay them a cent, keep fighting ..

Debtavenger replied:

My humble opinion is it’s just threats but could be wrong???

The letter is signed but who signed it, I don’t see their name??

I just kicked 2 attorney asses without a wimper but may be different on your side of the pond.

Please update if you have an outcome so others can learn.

Peace

Weazel85 replied:

Well I can tell you that I once had a car accident when living in Queensland, and when the letters of demand started rolling in from the insurer, then their lawyers, i simply ignored them and it all went away ! Never heard anything about it since.

The amount they were claiming was around 4k I believe.

The accident was my fault also as I ran up the back of them. I m telling you this because they will not persue everyone for outstanding amounts.

You have no obligation to pay the debt collectors anything!

And as for your son being uninsurable that’s untrue, everyone has a right to insurance.

It’s just a matter of how much they will charge you 🙂

no biggie, insure your sons car in your name, he can just be an unknown driver and if anything happens you pay a higher excess.

I wouldn’t be scared of their threats, thats all they are threats

peggyvz replied:

ok, back here after some months.

thanks for those who’ve commented in support.

Update being we ended up sending a letter stating income and expenses, no validation other than a centrelink statement of benefits and offering $10 per month which was all he has spare.

There was no reply for some time.

Then perhaps 2 months later we receive a letter of demand from a completely different debt collection agency which had obviously bought the debt stating they were acting on NRMA’s behalf and that if the said amount was not settled etc.

I had to laugh and so did my son. He now has decided to ignore it all completely.

This new company called once some time later and I answered and said my son wasnt available, I didnt realise who I was talking to at the time until a little into the call.

Later that month we received one more letter requesting acknowledgement of the debt which we ignored again… this was perhaps one month ago…

We will continue to ignore further letters if we receive more.

My son doesnt feel threatened by the debt collectors anymore as we saw what happened with the Recoveries Corp who were the most intimidating having their co. in the same premises as legal establishment etc.

adammorley73 replied:

Don’t ignore anything!!!

If you have any more contact from a debt collector then maybe you can agree to pay them (conditional acceptance) upon proof of claim and to your terms and conditions. Proof from them, that you owe them anything at all.

This way you have removed all controversy (by being in agreement with them) and you can sit back and wait for them to run around trying to meet your terms and conditions. If they can’t meet your conditions then they by default fall subject to your terms and conditions of fault… that may or may not include a clause such as “you agree to pay me $5k in damages”.

Why didn’t your sons’ CTP cover the accident?

If your son caused somebody loss or harm then he is liable to them and them only, not a debt collector.

Debtavenger replied:

You do know you can start the 3 letter process at any time right?

Just wait it out a little longer then the next letter you get send the first debt collector letter and they should be gone for good!

Some how I had a feeling those other jokers were bluffing 😉

peggyvz replied:

Yes, Debtavenger, we thought if we get a phonecall or a letter again from the second debt collector we will send copy of the letter from the previous debt collector and point out that we had already sent an offer of payment.

Right now just enjoying the respite.

peggyvz replied:

thanks adammorley73!

to answer your question: “Why didn’t your sons’ CTP cover the accident?”, the CTP Greenslip covers personal injury only, not damage to the vehicles.

recoveriescorp replied:

There is certain wording on the letters from most debt collectors (including Recoveries Corp) that gives you an indication of whether legal proceedings are imminent, or whether it is a just a standard lawyers letter aimed at scaring you into action.

See my attachment above (Recoveries_Corp.pdf) which analyses peggyvz’s letter from Recoveries Corp.

shmaves replied:

G’day,

This has been an insightful thread.

I realize some of these posts were from a few years ago, I’d love to know whats happened since.

Im currently riding a few debts, and after many months of no communication (from my behalf) ive just received a sort of threatening letter from mason black similar to that of this thread.

I don’t know what this 3 letter procedure is all about, i would love some advice moving forward.

I also want to note that i am currently residing out of Aus and am not due back for some time-how would this affect anything? What could i expect when i get back?

Thanks in advance